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Adam
Site Owner
Posts: 957

As I avoided spending a hill of cash at Salute this year for things that are still sitting in a bag a year later... :( I am thinking of getting a bunch of the A&A Middle Imperial Romans as they are doing the cavalry at 4 for the price of 3 at the moment... We have plenty of Sassanids and Goths and later Romans to fight them against right?

 

Les Rumble wrote ----

Being very boring and having no social life, I've been sitting here watching the very first episode of 'IRONSIDE' on ITV4. Tragic I know. I've also been looking at those A&A Romans. Technically they are too early for the Sassanids (phew ! Probably saved some cash there), there main opponents would have been the Sassanids forerunners, the Parthians, or the hordes of Germanic types (Infantry of various tribes and Goths) the Romans encountered invading there borders or the variious steppes peoples (Alans, Huns etc), there was also a civil war type situation in the late 2nd Century leading up to Severus taking control of the empire. So take your pick.


adam

 

Subject: Re: Figures


I beg to differ (not about your social life ��;) The third century was the time of crisis in the Roman Empire for very good reasons. Apart from economic collapse, there was massive invasions by various Germanic types and civil wars ( the two being interrelated) and also the formation of the far more aggressive Sassanid Empire 220s AD or thereabouts leading to several wars and the capture of an emperor (Valerian). Later in the century you have the rise and eventual clash with Palmyra.


Are the A&A figures suitable for the entire period? Hard to say as there is a break in the archaeological record at around the middle of the century, so it is difficult to pin down when armour styles transitioned to the better known Ridge helmets of the Late empire. There certainly seems to be evidence of some segmental armour still being used at the start of the third century and the last iterations of the Imperial style helmets are recorded. Rectangular shields? Dura Europa example is the only one I know of and Barker dismissed it as a parade antique. On the whole I think that the range does a fair job in showing a distinctive possible look to the army and reflects the break down of equipment supply before the centralised fabricae were introduced.

 

Of course I will happily fight Parthians, 2nd C. Romans, 4th C. Romans and yes, even Arthurian with my army. My Sassanids will happily appear as Parthians or Palmyrans too for that matter. The TV show sound interesting I'll have to look it up. Has to be better than Last Kingdom historically speaking...

 

Les if you want take some of the strain in getting Sassanids happy to do it as a joint project. That leaves you with Goths Jim. Arguably the most successful army of the period, beating Romans and later Huns.... (and they can morph into just about any wild and woolly barbarian types all the way up to Vikings.) plastic figures already available and Gothic horse coming soon from Gripping Beast.

 

Cheers,


Ad.

 

Les Rumble wrote ----

 

That's problem with all figures (Roman especially) when they cover such a spread of time, I thought that as the Sassanids were right at the back end of this period of Romans, running up to post Severus and so more likely to be closer to, what we refer to as Late Imperial. As with all armies, uniforms only get replaced when worn out or for new units, so likely that the border units and newly recruited ones would be of the later type and, probably, the majority of the field army troops which were stationed nearer the centre of the empires to protect the capitals would be earlier in dress ? A mix of early and late style units might be more likely. It is also probably true that it depended where you were stationed (East or West) and so who you were fighting would have a bearing, mainly infantry enemies in the West and Cavalry in the East. I can't believe that the Romans would have just binned earlier uniforms etc just because a newer version had come out. If it still worked, it would still be used so you probably had Segmentata, Squamata and mail all being used at the same time (maybe in the same army) and if the supposed change to leather post Severus (Barker fantasy ?) took place, probably that as well. It's the same argument we've had with the 15mm stuff.


It's the old WRG army list mentality of - pre 232AD it was this, post it was this - so at midnight Dec 31st 232 that troop type ceased to exist, not likely.

As always as long as it's not complete fantasy, though looking at some of the old army lists.......it's perfectly acceptable.


The majority of the Sassanid figures available are for the later Roman period when the Parthian influence had disapeared. I will eventually get some though not yet.


There are quite a few makers of Parthians out now, mainly Horse Archers, so a nice mix of 'Persian' types could be put together.

I think I've confused you over the TV show, it was the early 1970's US detective show about a chief of detectives being in a wheelchair staring Raymond Burr, not a program about Cromwell !



adam

Subject: Re: Figures


Sadly Barker is now woefully out of date, so army lists for middle and late imperial Rome are pretty useless(where I went first naturally ��;) I agree different armies within the Empire would look very different. There is a ancient account of how shocked the residents of Rome were when an army from the German frontier marched into the city. Looked like a barbarian army to them!



Les Rumble wrote ----


I've got the 'warrior' ones as well !


Good as an idea for what you could have but not definitive.


Have to remember they were there originally to stop people making up armies for competitions not as historical fact.

As with a Carthaginian army, if you've been away from home campaigning for a while, you'll just pick up a tunic from a body not wait for the next lot of uniform supplies if any, what was the logistics like in the Roman army ? Have to have a look at Galsworthy.


May 1, 2017 at 7:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Adam
Site Owner
Posts: 957

Logistics wise it was the norm for Roman units to equip themselves from their own resources and the craftsmen in the Vicus or a local town (if there was one.) I would love to know if a Centurian would march into a Gallic armourer's workshop and plonk down a helmet, with the instruction "ten of these please mate."

 

Until Severus all units in the Empire were stationed along the frontiers (different in Britain where most of frontier was sea coast so a kind of defence in depth had t be maintained.) There was no field army so there were two big problems: 1. once past the frontier an invading enemy encountered no opposition. 2. The Emperor only had an army when on campaign with it. To respond to internal and external attacks detachments were borrowed from the frontier units but once away from their base re-equipping became problematic. Some of the vexillations / detachments could be gone years or permanently (that might have been a later effect.) After Severus (beginning of 3rd C.) there was the start of field armies and additional cavalry being raised as a mobile firefighting force.

 

The Parthian horse archers that went from Vendel to Stafford/BNP to Warlord are superb if quite small. I am painting some now as Saka for the Bactrian Greek army but they will of course feature in my early Sassanid force. I don't have the Warrior list for this period but I suspect that they were a "gamers" update rather than academic (even to the level of Phil...)

cheers,

 

Adam

May 1, 2017 at 7:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Adam
Site Owner
Posts: 957

Lots of nicely painted Romans and Goths on Phil Robinson's blog

http://newsfromthefront-phil.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/3rd%20Century%20Romans

or click here

July 20, 2017 at 3:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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