Wargame Warrior

Some good stuff from Olicanalad.

http://olicanalad.blogspot.com/search/label/Punic%20Wars%20Project

Punic campaign battle:

http://olicanalad.blogspot.com/2012/02/battle-of-nemausus.html

&

http://olicanalad.blogspot.com/2012/02/battle-of-nemausus-full-report.html

After othe generally positive response from the first try of Theatre of War I have been considering  an ongoing campaign using the system that we could pick up on any weekend that we do not have a scenario game planned. For period, Punic Wars gives us the most options for figures and the highest number of players with their own figures to use. If we go for the Mercenary War between the 1st and 2nd Punic Wars we could even get some use out of the hoplites I have been painting. Second choice for me would be Macedonian Successors, again most of us have some figures.

Another thing I have been considering is if ToW could be played 3 or 4 handed. I can't see why not, without a thorough read of the rules. There are several methods for doing multiple initiative comparisons ( ie Odin die), once combat begins the game would become a standard two sided wargame.

On the Mercenary War subject; does anyone have any thoughts or sources about the armies' compositions? I wouldn't find it too far fetched that Spaniards would be used before the Barcid empire was founded and Celts would seem to offer a plentiful supply of fierce manpower. What about hoplites from Sicily? Or do we think the armies would  have been more African at this period?

A Theatre of War campaign set in Spain during the Second Punic War already exists. It is called North of the Ebro. You may not be able to lcate a copy, however.

Good call.

 I have always fancied the Mercenary War as a bit of a change from 2nd Punic War though. A more African/Greek based Carthie army vs. the usual merc component (Gauls & Spaniards? & Numidians?)

North of the Ebro deals with the campaign fought by Gnaeus Scipio in south east Spain at the outbreak of the war. The principle opponent was whichever Barca brother (not Phil, of course) who hannibal left behind with the African garrison army.  I think it was Hanno. His army consisted of Liby-Phoenician infantry, Numidians, Liby-Phoenician cavalry, and possibly some citizen infantry from New Carthage. The book suggests it had a very African flavour. The Spanish were also not mercenaries as they came from tribes outside of Punic occupied territory and were therefore Carthaginian allies. Historically, they kept on changingsides. They are, therefore, very tribal and not very good. Also, the two armies, Spanish and Carthaginian, seem to have operated seperately, to the point where when they camped next to each other and the Romans attacked the Africans, the Spanish just stood and stared and went home afterwards! 

Can lead to a mutli-player Theatre of War campaign with a little adaptation, i should think.

If you are interested in looking at it I'll try to dig out my copy and bring it along on Thursday.

Definitely.

Just stumbled across a nice little artcle on the Truceless War in WI. I have put a scanned copy here: click here I have a higher quality pdf version if you want it.

The first battle in Olicanalad's Punic campaign.

http://olicanalad.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/battle-of-ariminum.html

I am so running a Truceless War ToW campaign now!

Big Punic game as the Olicanalad campaign nears it's climax:

http://olicanalad.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/the-2nd-battle-of-hispilis-204-bc.html

1482 figures apparently (although double depth units so cheating IMHO) How many do we have between us?

Just quickly totted up from the list of figures I have here (Pre Zama) and it comes to 4112 ! That's just Punes not Successors and includes 576 Spanish scutarii and 676 Celts with 1444 Hastati/principes !

That was plainly wrong, did it in rush just before the fire alarm went off ! I was out on a visit straight after that, but everyone else was standing in the rain from 10.30ish until 1ish when they were sent home !

Did bases times units rather than figures per base !

Done it properly this time, still with anout of date list as I know I've got some more since this was done and the results were thus:

Greeks/successors = 948

Persians = 321

Punes/Romans = 1304

So not far to go, a hundred and fifty punes etc or so, think I've got them on my own ! (just checked and I had 844 unpainted punes/romans - want to start painting Jim/Del?)

Lets get painting, can't be outdone !!!!! 

I have another 240 figures to paint just for my Roman legions... First game at Waylands big Punic bash? (or redo Zama?)

Not sure if this is relevant/topical or required, but extract from Wiki regarding the Battle of Bagradas River (In the Truceless War), seems to indicate that pretty much any troop type was available from Spaniards to Hoplites.  Obviously the style of fighting described leaves much to be desired although, if believed, could mean hoplite figures could sub for CCS:

Composition of Forces[edit]

Carthaginian citizens normally wore armor, leg greaves, Greek style helmets, carried a round shield, long spear and sword and fought in Phalanx formation. Carthaginian citizens and the Libyo-Phoenicians provided disciplined, well trained cavalry equipped with thrusting spears and round shields. Any mercenaries in Hanno the Great’s army may have resembled the rebels they were facing. Carthage also used Elephants, probably African Forest and Indian Elephants as shock troops. The elephants were ridden by specially trained riders, some may have come from ancient India or Syria.

The rebel army had Libyans, Iberians, Gauls, Greeks, and probably Thracians and Scythians present, along with Campanians and Roman deserters.[29] The Libyan heavy infantry fought in close formation, armed with long spears and round shields, wearing helmets and linen cuirasses. The light Libyan infantry carried javelins and a small shield, same as Iberian light infantry. The Iberian infantry wore purple bordered white tunics and leather headgear. The heavy Iberian infantry fought in a dense phalanx, armed with heavy throwing spears, long body shields and short thrusting swords.[30] Campanian, Sardinian, Sicel and Gallic infantry fought in their native gear,[31] but often were equipped by Carthage. Sicels, Sardinians and other Sicilians were equipped like Greek Hoplites, as were the Sicilian Greek mercenaries. Balearic Slingers fought in their native gear.

Numidians provided superb light cavalry armed with bundles of javelins and riding without bridle or saddle, and light infantry armed with javelins. Iberians and Gauls also provided cavalry, which relied on the all out charge.

Much as I thought, although astonishing that Thracians and Scythians could be present so far west. Thinnest area of information is still equipment and fighting style for most troop types, the evidence is just so patchy. Hoplites we like to think we have a handle on but they chnaged over the centuries in armour and style of fighting too. In this period they could be be heavily armoured, lightly equipped, Iphicratean  (whatever the hell they are), transitioning to sarissophoroi or  theurophoroi (whatever the hell they are!)

I'm not then going to get too uptight about how we represent different army contingents but I do consider that the overall quality was not terrifically high; the mercenaries were operating with an ad hoc command structure and little in the way of unity of purpose. The Carthaginians onthe other hand had to recruit a lot of new troops to fight their corner as the vast majority of the veterans were in the enemy camp.

from what I've read, it would seem that the two sides were virtually exact opposites, mercenaries were good troops with not that good command and the Punes were not that good troops with good command !  That can be fixed in PK with the card decks and varying the quality of troops etc.  Could be some good battles.